spravenwriter ([info]spravenwriter) wrote in [info]academics_anon,
2012-03-01 21:35:00
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University Classifications and Jobs

Hey A_A,

I'll be applying for jobs next year in education/humanities departments at R1 universities. I've also got some R2As and R2Bs on my list, since there are some good schools in this category. My question to you all is, how likely is it that I could get a job at an R2, then eventually move to an R1? Do I need to get an R1 job right out of the degree to work at an R1 in my life, or is an R2 university a legitimate stepping stone? Any advice you all can give me would be greatly appreciated :)

P.S. I know that the whole R1, R2A, R2B thing is outdated, but the Chronicle uses this rating system and so does everyone in my department.
Tags: job applications, job market

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  • 49 comments

[info]pauldeman2pt0

March 2 2012, 02:38:26 UTC 2 months ago

You'll be lucky to get **a job**, period, so you probably shouldn't be too picky.

Only 30% of PhDs in the Humanities will ever have a tenure-track job.

Lower your expectations, seriously.

Lower them.

[info]ancarett

March 2 2012, 02:47:08 UTC 2 months ago

This.

If you'll only accept a top-ranked research-intensive university job, you'd better have the most kick-ass CV, the best references, the perfect specialization and sacrifice a goat. Or two!

[info]ichbinkelsey

March 2 2012, 03:27:20 UTC 2 months ago

Triple this.

Apply for everything that you possibly can. Throw your list of 'places you'd be willing to consider' away; you are really, really, playing the odds here, and the odds are...not good, even if you are applying for everything you can. That said, it may be field-specific, but in my field a lot of people bounce between different types of institutions for a while, and that does not seem to have tons of immediate bearing on what kind of places they end up at (except in the sense that the more experience you have, the better you're positioned.)

[info]qkellie

March 2 2012, 17:17:45 UTC 2 months ago

We had a humanities faculty person at my uni who had just gotten a TT here from having been fully tenured at a community college. It totally happens. She then left us for a TT at a higher-ranked institution.

[info]spravenwriter

March 2 2012, 03:42:08 UTC 2 months ago

They're lowering as I type :)

[info]qkellie

March 2 2012, 17:16:41 UTC 2 months ago

I quadruple support this notion. A full-time job, not even a TT job or a job at a so-called "good" school. That's the new goal, folks.

[info]max_ambiguity

March 2 2012, 02:41:25 UTC 2 months ago

Yeah, there are no good schools below R2B. But I recommend looking into R2D2 in your situation.

[info]knut_hamson

March 2 2012, 03:34:11 UTC 2 months ago

I C3PO what you did there.

[info]max_ambiguity

March 2 2012, 03:38:17 UTC 2 months ago

C3PO schools are the worst! So pedantic.

[info]imbrium8

2 months ago

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[info]knut_hamson

2 months ago

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[info]imbrium8

2 months ago

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[info]knut_hamson

2 months ago

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[info]qkellie

2 months ago

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[info]lostreality

March 2 2012, 02:47:08 UTC 2 months ago Edited:  March 2 2012, 02:50:34 UTC

Yes you can move up from an R2 to an R1 but you will have to publish your way up to it. When I was in grad school there were some people who joined our department who were previously at R2s but had published some fairly famous books and were able to move up.

However at least in my field, generally only people with several (I'm talking 4-5+) peer-reviewed publications can get a R1 job straight out of grad school, to get that kind of job most will do a postdoc where they can beef up their CV with several more publications or a book. I have a couple of friends in education who work at r1s and they also had 4 or 5 publications when going on the job market.

When I was on the job market I saw many of my peers who had only 1 or 2 publications apply to mainly R1s and a few other schools. All those people ended up scrambling to get a postdoc or a visiting professorship and none have tenure track jobs yet (2 years later).

[info]spravenwriter

March 2 2012, 03:41:42 UTC 2 months ago

Thank you for the information. I'll keep that in mind.

[info]knut_hamson

March 2 2012, 03:33:44 UTC 2 months ago

You mean some people even bother applying to non-R1 jobs? How gauche.

[info]matrygg

March 2 2012, 04:03:11 UTC 2 months ago

I plan to only apply to Oxford. This whole country is gauche.

[info]imbrium8

March 2 2012, 13:22:22 UTC 2 months ago

Wait, you people all have to apply for jobs? How gauche indeed. I am just going to sit back and wait for the job offers to roll in.

[info]ichbinkelsey

2 months ago

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[info]pauldeman2pt0

2 months ago

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[info]imbrium8

2 months ago

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[info]rokeya

March 2 2012, 03:34:52 UTC 2 months ago

The glutted job market makes it even more difficult to get a job at an R2 than it was before. You will be competing against candidates with pedigrees from prestigious schools, publications, etc. who are scrambling for employment. This is not to discourage you, but I think it is important to set expectations that are anchored in the reality of the market.

What do folks in your department have to say about where you should be aiming? Your dissertation chair or department placement committee (if your department has one) would possibly have better insight, since they are better acquainted with your work/subfield.

Is your goal to be at an R1 because it is an R1, or to have the time and resources to get your research out there? I earned my Ph.D. at an R1, taught full-time there as a post-doc (2/2/2 load), and am currently at a teaching institution with a 3/4...but my classes are tiny (at the R1 they were fairly large), I only have 3 preps/semester max, I've taught some version of all of these classes before so the prep is minimal, and overall, my teaching load is actually much lighter here (even in semesters where I have my 4-load) than it ever was when I was FT at an R1, plus the funding for conferences is over double what I received at the R1 (plus many more opportunities for grants, etc.). I have seriously outperformed what I thought I could do here research-wise, and I'll admit that this was because of (false) expectations shaped by the ranking system that you mention. If your aim is support/resources to publish, rather than simply being at an R1, I suggest looking past the ranking system when you apply for jobs and checking out professional development and teaching load/preps.

[info]spravenwriter

March 2 2012, 03:40:52 UTC 2 months ago

The professors in my department, for the most part, think I should be applying to R1s. The problem is that most of them are older and got their tenure at least 15-20 years ago, so I don't think they understand the state of the job market. My goal is not really to be at an R1 because of the title. Mainly, I really just need to find the best paying job that I can, which tends to be at an R1. Ideally though, I would love to teach at any sort of post-secondary research institution, no matter the ranking. If R2s are the universities to shoot for now, then I need to know that, so thank you for your answer. It's comforting to know that R2s have good funding and a lot of opportunities.

[info]pauldeman2pt0

2 months ago

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[info]gobsmacked

2 months ago

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[info]ichbinkelsey

2 months ago

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[info]pauldeman2pt0

2 months ago

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[info]matrygg

2 months ago

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[info]lollardfish

2 months ago

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[info]kaygigi

2 months ago

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[info]gobsmacked

2 months ago

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[info]lostreality

2 months ago

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[info]pauldeman2pt0

2 months ago

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[info]kaygigi

2 months ago

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[info]rokeya

2 months ago

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[info]kataplexis

2 months ago

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[info]lostreality

2 months ago

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[info]pauldeman2pt0

2 months ago

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[info]knut_hamson

2 months ago

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[info]morag_gunn

March 2 2012, 05:17:11 UTC 2 months ago

We're not all American (shocking, isn't it). What is this R business? Can one apply to a PG13 university?

[info]kaygigi

March 2 2012, 05:47:30 UTC 2 months ago

The Rs designate the level of research funded or expected at a given university. R1 indicates the highest level of research and generally refers to either the top private universities or the flagship state campuses that do a lot of research. R2 is behind R1, obviously, but may be R1 competitive in certain disciplines but not others (for example: my graduate institution, very competitive in my field, very competitive in a few other fields, very very not competitive in the fields that tend to count towards research funding dollars, hence an R2 designation in general despite the relative strength of my particular department).

That being said, the market sucks all around, there are really only a handful of R1 institutions, and to limit oneself to the R1s and top R2s is career suicide. However, students from R1s are often pressured into only applying to other R1s or R2s and not go for teaching-centered gigs or smaller branch campuses. Because, you know, grad students are kind of like one's children, and if your children don't go to Oxbridge or Yale/Harvard/Princeton, then you're a crap parent, and if your students don't go to R1s, then you're a crap professor. I'm just glad that despite a level of competitiveness, my department doesn't have that pressure. They just want us to get jobs, period.

[info]aileen8aalien

March 3 2012, 00:19:09 UTC 2 months ago

Yes, but NC-17s are where all the fun is.

[info]trundle

March 2 2012, 06:49:38 UTC 2 months ago

Wait... why would you apply to anything but an Ivy? Don't you know what kind of people are at those other schools?

[info]tyopsqueene

March 2 2012, 07:46:31 UTC 2 months ago

Are you only applying within the US? If your main concern is the level of the wages then the best paying jobs in academia are elsewhere; the gulf states and east asia pay high to hire western academics, and for quality of life/teaching load balance you're often going to be better off in a 'second' or 'third' tier western european institution than in an equivalent US one.
Or, you know, do pretty much anything other than be an academic.

[info]sensaes

March 2 2012, 10:54:02 UTC 2 months ago

How are your flipping skills? Can we interest you in a burger franchise?

[info]cheez_ball

March 2 2012, 20:08:40 UTC 2 months ago

You can't accept or reject a job until you have an offer. Having goals is good, but having offers is better. As others have said, apply for everything then make a choice if you get multiple offers.

I'm in the process of finishing up my own degree now and everyone keeps asking where I'm going to work next. It's bizarre because it's not like you can pick and choose before you have an actual offer in-hand. So far I've probably filled out 20-30 apps in the last 3 or so months, at approximately 2 hours each (online apps take that long to fill out, even if you're just copying and pasting everything). [LinkedIn apps are awesome - just click and attach a CV and cover letter.] I've heard back from 2. Both were negative, but, you know. At least they cared enough to send a form email.

[info]coendou

March 4 2012, 23:51:51 UTC 2 months ago

It drives me crazy when my family asks where we're going to settle down. They just don't get the academic job market at all. When my cousin found out my husband was living/working in a different city than me, she asked "Couldn't you just transfer [my PhD program] there?" LOL

[info]aileen8aalien

March 3 2012, 00:23:59 UTC 2 months ago

I attended a R1 university, graduated with some articles, a ton of conference papers, scads of teaching experience and I was on the market for 2 years. I applied to 300 jobs of all types, had 12 MLA interviews, 3 campus interviews, and 2 job offers during that time (the job offers both were the second year on the market). I'm at a private engineering college that does not have tenure, only promotion and I have to wait until my 6th year to go up for promotion (I'm finishing my 4th year). We are on the quarter system and I teach a 4/4/4 with 3 preps a quarter and my classes range from 25 to 35. I am seriously considering testing the market again this upcoming year (possibly because I have a mental disorder that makes me a masochist, I'm not sure, it's hard to know when one is sane or terminally damaged when you're dealing with English majors/faculty), but I haven't had a lick of time to worry about getting published and I realize that even with all my teaching, classroom innovation, conference presentations, community work, etc I am not in a position of power.

Them's the realities. The market sucks. You literally are lucky to get any type of job right now. I have friends who have been on the market for two and three years (they are all currently employed but want to move up) and not a single one of them has had an interview.
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